Entre-Temps is located in a space that requires no scholarly prerequisites

Interview with Patrick Boucheron

At the crossroads of different audiences and different temporalities, Entre-Temps is a current history magazine, collective and entirely free of charge. For the fourth anniversary of its launch on the Web, its director of publication, Pr Patrick Boucheron, tells us about the history and challenges of this atypical magazine.

Why do you define your magazine as a public history service ?

Patrick Boucheron : The initial project was to consider that, in terms of the digital writing of history, there was already a lot to glean from the Web, and that one of our responsibilities, for an institution like the Collège de France, was to show what already existed, to editorialize it, and to show emerging forms in the field of the historical discipline. The idea was that we may have less to invent than to inventory, that boldness and innovation are already present. It's this work of monitoring, collecting and editing that constitutes our public service mission : we had the idea of an open, free and accessible creative space, particularly for secondary school colleagues. We also wanted to give an account of what goes on before books, in blogs and research notebooks, of all the writing that doesn't yet take the form of a book.

With Adrien Genoudet, who was an ATER in my chair for three years, and who gave impetus to the first years of the Entre-Temps magazine, we started with this idea. It hasn't been completely abandoned, since it still exists in the form of various sections (notably the one called " Exhumer "). What remains is the renewed conviction that this is not a magazine, in the sense that it would have to defend an editorial line of its own, that it is not a school, that it is not a militant space, but a place of visibility, editorialization and recognition.

Who is  aimed at? Specialists or the general public ?

I don't think it's the general public. In my general activity, which plays on a range that I hope is as varied as possible between scholarly history and public history, I try to balance out the different forms of address : you don't write in a specialist magazine the way you talk on the radio. The name of the magazine, Entre-Temps, is also intended as an in-between. Between the frenetic tempo of social networking news, and therefore the desire to react, and the much slower tempo of scholarly journals or artistic productions. Entre-Temps is already intended as an expression of this in-between temporality, but it's undoubtedly also an in-between of audiences. In other words, we're in a space that's not reserved for the general public, that doesn't require any scholarly prerequisites, but that sits between the general public, popularization and the professional space of professional historians - without forgetting all the cultural and creative professions. It's a place where readers of history and the humanities can take an interest in something other than their favourite subject, but with a level of demand that's more or less equivalent.

You created this journal four years after your arrival at the Collège de France. Why then ? Has the development of this medium enriched your work and, by extension, your readings at our institution ?

It was a time of development. I had the idea right from the start, in the terms I defined with you, and if it has evolved, it's also because I tuned it to the wishes of the team of young researchers who came together at the time, and have been renewed since - when Elisabeth Schmit, then Pauline Guillemet, both successively ATER on my chair, took responsibility for it. This team had a creative urge around their research into visuality, comics, documentary cinema... that I didn't want to curb. Obviously, it feeds me. It's a place that I expect to surprise me and lead me down paths I hadn't suspected or foreseen. I've always been concerned about the independence, if not the autonomy, of this medium and its team. For a very long time, I didn't link it to the activities of the Chair itself, because I had real qualms about turning it into a forum. It still isn't, but now I'm less reluctant to use it as an echo chamber for what I offer elsewhere, first and foremost at the Collège de France , but also on Arte, France Inter, and in the public theaters where I sometimes perform.

This does not preclude shared themes, such as the question of the archive, or more precisely, the staging of the archive of the self, which has given rise to a few " series " in the magazine. However, this way of being " between " or next to it must not become a coquetry that consists in wanting at all costs not to be in the news. The assassination of Samuel Paty and the war in Ukraine have, on two occasions , brought the magazine out of its usually distanced programming, and we have, I believe, made progress (in visibility, but also in reflexivity) by accepting to face up to the effraction of reality.

In addition to historians, artists, visual artists and writers contribute to the magazine. Why did you insist on their presence ?

It's part of a range of activities and addresses, from the most academic to the most general public. It's not the place for academic expression for me, nor is it a place for popularization, even if some colleagues, particularly in secondary education, do write about pedagogical devices.
This reflects a general interest or attention to forms of bringing the past into presence that are not only those of the academic space. The academic writing of history is just one of the ways in which the past is made present. The essence of our work lies in a critical inventory of the various forms of writing : visual, televisual, cinematographic, cartoonist, playful... In short, it's about promoting a history that welcomes everything that goes beyond it. This broadens the scope of history, which is why we want to get professional historians interested in these new forms of writing to write. But also to ask creators, video artists, writers or others, to engage with us in a conversation about the historical significance, or at least the historical consistency, of their work. In terms of our administrative categories, this sounds like " research and creation ".

How does Entre-Temps compare with other history magazines, from the very mainstream L'Histoire to the much more academic Annales, histoire et sciences sociales ?

I know these magazines very well. I joined the editorial board of L'Histoire in 1999. They were our first partners, along with Emmanuel Laurentin, who produced La Fabrique de l'histoire on France Culture, as well as my usual accomplices such as the Théâtre de la Colline in Paris, the Grand T in Nantes and the Théâtre national de Bretagne in Rennes, where I'm a research associate... Of course,Entre-Temps is more akin to L'Histoire magazine than to the Annales review. For a long time, Entre-Temps was a magazine of fairly long texts that could both attract and intimidate. We have really gained in visibility and audience with the switch to two media that complement the texts : the audio podcast - is the original form of the " Rétroviseur " - and the videos - the " Entrevues ". In the audio podcast, we seek out a historian of different generations to talk about an early article. It's a kind of self-reflexivity on a scholarly production. This reflectsEntre-Temps ' constant concern to take an interest in historians' archives - I could say, to archive historians' self-archiving. It's something that was showcased at La Nuit des idées 2020 at the Collège de France, as well as every year at the Rendez-vous de l'histoire in Blois. Our videos feature lengthy interviews between the editorial team and a researcher, creator, writer or filmmaker.

How do you see the scientific journal landscape today? What are the main trends ?

I don't thinkEntre-Temps has any place in the landscape of scientific journals, because it escapes the problems that are typical of this milieu, notably the economic question and the question of evaluation. If we were to adopt a commercial model, Entre-Temps would be what we call a " micromédia ", a niche journal that develops a specific angle in a professional manner. It would have subscriber recruitment, promotion, staff and business model imperatives. If I mention public service, it's also because we're supported by the Collège de France, through my chair, and for video production by the Fondation du Collège de France and the Fondation Hugot.

Beyond the economic model, Entre-Temps also aims to be an open space, without evaluation.

Yes, and this also distances us from the world of journals, whose role is to transmit (and even produce) knowledge, but also to evaluate careers. If you write for a magazine, it's usually because you hope to gain something from it - which can be either directly financial, or indirectly self-interested in the case of a scientific journal that participates in career development. Nor should I forget the motivations that stem from political or intellectual commitment. In this case, it's different. One wonders why potential contributors would want to entrust Entre-Temps with an article, some time, a creation, without being remunerated and without this having any impact on their career development. We must believe that there is still a free, disinterested space in which to test one's freedom as a researcher, by delivering the side-effects of one's thinking, still seems desirable. This is where the magazine joins the Collège de France institution in its non-economic, non-utilitarian relationship with knowledge, in the spirit of curiosity that drives this institution, which does not deliver symbolic recognition through a diploma. And perhaps also, its audience, who come simply because they are motivated by curiosity.

Interview by Aurèle Méthivier