Comic strips must find their place in teaching

Interview with Benoît Peeters

Hergé specialist, scriptwriter of the Les Cités obscures saga, author of biographies and essays, Benoît Peeters has been an active observer of comics for over forty years. His critical eye is matched by a creative one, nurtured by the back-and-forth between theory and practice. For the period 2022-2023, he has been invited to hold theannual Artistic creation chair , which this year enjoys the exceptional support of the Centre national du livre.

In October 2020, you have already given a lecture at the Collège de France entitled " Genie de la bande dessinée, de Töpffer à Emil Ferris ". What are you planning to do again this time ?

The approach here will be more aesthetic than historical. First and foremost, I'll be looking at the key features of the  medium: the box, the page, the treatment of time, the relationship between text and image, the translation of sound, the work of the script, the diversity of drawings and styles, the question of color... It's the creative possibilities of comics that will be at the heart of my lecture. The opening lecture " Un art neuf " will attempt to show how and why the desire for legitimacy arose in the history of comics. After all, it wasn't taken for granted. One might have thought that comics would remain first and foremost a form of entertainment, content to remain modest and popular without claiming the title of ninth art. This chair is an opportunity to introduce the richness of the field to those who already love it, but also to those who have only a vague image of it, linked to their childhood memories and a few successful series. Comics deserve to be considered as a medium in their own right, and not simply as a genre dedicated to childhood and entertainment - even if these dimensions are not to be scorned.

In your work, you've already shown that comics were originally intended for adults, as in the works of Rodolphe Töpffer, Gustave Doré and English caricature... So why have they become children's literature in the eyes of many ?

The history of the comic strip is one of to-ing and fro-ing between the press and the book, and between childhood and adulthood. With Töpffer, comics began in book form, aimed at a cultivated public. In the second half of the ^19th century, they began to appear in the major European press, a phenomenon that continued in the United States. But around 1900, particularly in France, it found its place mainly in children's magazines, where we find La Famille Fenouillard, Bécassine, Les Pieds nickelés... The general press gradually moved away from comics, and there was a real shift towards albums. Today, magazines have all but disappeared, and comics are essentially a book phenomenon. Comic and manga shelves have grown considerably: in France, they represent over 20 % of the book market.

When comics first appeared in the press as serials, like Edgar P. Jacobs' Blake et Mortimer in the Journal de Tintin, readers were guaranteed a dose of intrigue on every page. Has the end of this type of publishing paved the way for other, less adventure-oriented comics ?

Yes, it's no longer necessary to end each page with intolerable and sometimes artificial suspense. The authors build their albums in a more global way. Nevertheless, the system of publication in the press has given rise to such remarkable works as those by Hergé and Franquin ; they have adapted very well to these constraints. However, the evolution of comics towards books has enabled them to broaden their language and themes. There are now albums for all audiences. These transformations in the medium have played a decisive role in its recognition as a legitimate form. Comics have the ability to tell us a story in a dotted line, notably through ellipses.

It's true that reading a comic strip is not at all passive; it constantly sparks the imagination and the story sometimes takes place between the frames..

Exactly. Off-screen plays an essential role. I remember that after the publication of the album La Tour, produced with François Schuiten, many readers described their favorite square to us, but most of the time that square didn't exist. This is one of the strengths of  comics: to create a mental image that persists after reading.

For a long time, comic-book heroes never aged, despite all their adventures, which brought them closer to the characters of children's stories. Today, this characteristic is less present. We've seen this with Riad Sattouf's L'Arabe du futur and Les Cahiers d'Esther . How do you see this evolution ?

One of the lectures will be entitled " The age of heroes ". I don't think that featuring eternal characters is a weakness of classic comics at all. We could compare this logic to that of myth or epic. Little by little, comic-book heroes have lost their connection with immortality and have become more fragile. This is true of Corto Maltese, and even more so of graphic novel characters. Since Art Spiegelman's Maus , graphic novels have made time their main subject. We've moved from an epic to a novelistic approach.

The history of comics has been progressively rewritten as the digitization of archives has made it possible to rediscover forgotten strata..

Gallica has played an essential role in resurrecting forgotten works. The oldest comic strips are sometimes very close to the most contemporary research. But many traditions have not yet been studied to the extent they deserve. Comics are not confined to the Francophone, North American and Japanese worlds. Its history remains to be written, and that can only be done collectively. Today's comics are full of vitality, in very different registers. I'm wary of the hierarchies that some would like to establish between graphic novels and the rest of comics. The desire for legitimacy should not lead to a spirit of seriousness. After all, comics have always been characterized by their impertinence, a spirit to which Titeuf, Mortelle Adèle and many mangas bear witness today.

In 2015, you were the president of the états généraux de la bande dessinée and you warned about the situation of authors. What is the situation today ? You spoke earlier of overproduction. Are some authors drowning in the mass ?

I'm very sensitive to this problem. There's a great deal of creativity in comics today, but overproduction makes many albums invisible and weakens the authors. Curiously, economic conditions have deteriorated as recognition of the sector has grown. Comics are doing well in macro-economic terms, but much less so in individual terms. The number of albums sold each year has risen steadily over the past twenty years, but the average sale of each album has fallen considerably. In my early days, creative work was recognized and remunerated : publication in magazines guaranteed authors fairly favorable economic conditions. Today, the risk of deprofessionalization is very real. But comics also have a craft dimension, which is absolutely essential.

And in this system, does the industry favor certain genres ?

Yes, revivals of yesterday's and yesterday's heroes are growing at the expense of the most creative comics. Many characters have been given a second or third life by new authors. Despite a few brilliant exceptions, such as Émile Bravo's Spirou , these albums flatter nostalgia above all. Moreover, manga now occupy a colossal place in the book industry. Yet it's less risky for a publisher to translate a series that has already proved its worth in Japan than to promote a new creation in the French language.

How do you explain the fact that there are hardly any comics in the major press publications today ?

Over the past forty years, the world of comics has shifted from the press to books. Today, newspapers no longer seem to believe in comics, except in the summer - but for a comic intended to become an album just after this prepublication. It's no longer a question of accompanying a creation. I believe this evolution is irreversible. It has favored the development of graphic novels, higher print quality and the emergence of direct color. But at the same time, it has led to a loss of direct, and sometimes daily, contact with a less specialized public. Not so long ago, in magazines such as Pilote, (À Suivre) or Métal Hurlant, great elders such as Moebius, Pratt and Tardi surrounded novice authors. The public gradually discovered their work: when an album came out, it was eagerly awaited. Nowadays, albums are published directly. If there isn't an immediate spotlight thanks to the subject or the author's reputation, even an excellent book is likely to go unnoticed. Building a career as an author is becoming increasingly difficult.

However, mooks regularly use comics to illustrate their reports ( XXI magazine, Zadig, Believer in the U.S....) Could this not represent a new Eldorado and a new financial windfall for authors ?

It's a possibility, but it remains marginal and concerns only a tiny minority of authors. Blogs have been another way of making a name for themselves : this was the case for Boulet, Pénélope Bagieu and Marion Montaigne. Other forms can be found on the digital side, even if I believe that comics retain a very deep connection with the world of paper.

Alongside these mooks, more and more comics are journalistic stories, like Guy Delisle's Pyongyang, Burmese Chronicles and Jerusalem Chronicles. How do you analyze the need for a certain segment of journalism to turn to graphic novels ?

The growth of non-fiction and reportage comics is one of the most remarkable phenomena of the last fifteen years, as is the long overdue feminization of the genre. There are a number of subjects or environments that photography or the camera cannot tackle in the same way as drawing. I'm thinking, for example, of Joe Sacco's work : the people he met, in Palestine and elsewhere, probably wouldn't have let him in with a camera. The drawing is less intrusive, you see it being done, you become familiar with the author, you feel his commitment... Non-fiction comics (biography, reportage, treatment of scientific subjects) have found their own language within the graphic novel. It has already spawned a number of remarkable books. As for the feminization of comics, it's essential : we've gone from a few isolated female authors to around 30 % female creators, who have brought new readers with them.

2020 was the Year of Comics in France, and Catherine Meurisse was elected to the Académie des Beaux-Arts. This year, you hold the Chair of Artistic Creation at the Collège de France... With all this, could comics lose their popular appeal ?

Honestly, I don't have that fear, and I don't think we have that power. In fact, manga belies the risk you're pointing out. Its popularity comes from children and teenagers, to whom it undoubtedly appears as a form of counter-culture, a space of freedom, far from the recommendations of schools and parents. A more real threat could be seen in the proliferation of public sales and art galleries : if some authors are thinking first and foremost about selling their originals, they run the risk of distancing themselves from certain characteristics of the medium. However, this recognition by the art market remains limited. And I'm surprised that the big museums, starting with the Centre Pompidou, don't give more space to comics in the construction of their collections, whereas they've opened up to design, fashion and architectural drawing. Many great authors have recently passed away, and their archives have been dispersed. Like children's illustration and press cartoons, comics represent one of the great drawing traditions of the ^20th century. Original plates and sketches deserve to be preserved in good condition. FRACs and other institutions could also provide much-needed support for living artists. Comics have not yet fully benefited from recognition in these areas. As far as universities are concerned, comics have long been a poor relation, but things are beginning to change. Since comics are a form of reading in their own right, and not simply a gateway to reading, they need to find their place in teaching. So it's essential that a teacher can approach it with tools that are not those of literary analysis or another art form. As you can see, there's still some territory to conquer.

Interview by Marie Mougin